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Shalom All:
First, Angus and I want to thank all of you who responded to our Rapture Poll. Many of you also shared personal comments, which we appreciated. We now want to report on that Poll, and to ask for yet more input from those who read it.

We present these findings knowing that until Messiah returns there will be some speculation and disagreement with respect to the timing and events related to His return. We also do not want to encourage division with this report, nor to suggest in any way that we have all the answers. We are simply concerned about the matter and would like to offer an opinion on it, and in turn, to hear from you regarding the points we present. We are especially interested in further study in two areas: Daniel’s 70th week; has it already been fulfilled? And, further defining the “The Wrath.”

If you remember, in the original Poll, we offered everyone the opportunity to cast a vote for one of the following categories:

• Pre-Tribulation Rapture (Believers are taken out, Raptured, before Daniel’s prophesied 7 years of tribulation)
• Mid-Tribulation Rapture (Believers undergo some tribulation, but are Raptured at the midway, 3.5 year, point of the 7 year Tribulation)
• Pre-Wrath Rapture (Believers endure some tribulation, but are Raptured before the bowls of Wrath mentioned in the Book of Revelation are poured out on the earth)
• Post-Tribulation Rapture (Believers are here for the duration, and those mortals who are alive at Messiah Yeshua’s coming must put on “immortality,” they must be changed, or so to speak, “Raptured.”)
• Pan-Tribulation Rapture (This category is for those who are not sure what they think... but believe that in the end, they can trust the Lord and know that it will all “pan out.”)

Some of you felt you had to vote the label that came the “closest” to your opinion. I now wish I had been more specific in my descriptions, and that I had allowed room for those of you who do not believe in a coming “7 year tribulation,” but instead believe Daniel’s 70th week has already been fulfilled. Those who fell in this category, which I later called “Other,” numbered about 4% of the vote (a few comments were unclear to me and they too went into this category).

Of those who responded to the poll, about 6% of you believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, and slightly less than 1% believe in a Mid-Trib Rapture.

The Pre-Wrath Rapture carried the second highest number of votes at 14%. However, many of this number (about half) were unsure if we would be taken out of the earth during this time, but felt wherever we were, we would be spared from “the wrath” that is poured out in the last days.

Again, we think this theory is worthy of further Scripture-based study, to see if it stands or falls.

A little more than 9% felt it would all “Pan” out, but many in this number similarly indicated they felt they would be here until the end. Most voted this way simply because they were a bit unsure of the subject, but nonetheless felt they could “trust the Lord.” One fellow pointed out that Pan-Trib faith is part of Post-Trib faith, because we have to have absolute faith in Messiah Yeshua and keep His commandments in order to get through what is coming.

Finally, the overwhelming majority of you, 66% – two-thirds, fell into the “Post-Trib” category and believe we will be here for the duration (Considering the comments in the Pan and Pre-Wrath categories, the number is probably more like 75%.) This is indeed a significant number.

Let me say that the results of this poll would surely be different if the questions were asked of a different group. However, we wanted to ask our questions of those who understand about Israel’s restoration, and not of those who see themselves as being separate from Israel, which is what many in the Church believe. We say this because, the restoration of Israel’s Kingdom in the earth is central to the theme of Scripture, and in our opinion, you cannot truly understand the Father’s game plan if you do not understand who He says are the players in that game.

Pre and Mid-Trib Comments

Those who fell in this category often spoke of being raptured as the Messiah’s “Bride,” and the thoughts behind the idea were sometimes based on Jewish wedding customs. For example:

• Most everything I am sharing came from my rabbi...[who] believes in a pretrib rapture. He believes...the bride will go into seclusion with the bridegroom for 7 days (years) in the fathers house just as the Jewish woman goes into seclusion in a traditional Jewish wedding. Rabbi also teaches about the rapture happening in stages, 3 to be exact, and it is all based on the harvest of the seasons all happening in 3 separate parts. First fruits - the gathering of all the crop that is ready on the first gathering, which will be the harvesting of those who are the bride who are ready, holy and spotless. The main harvest - where the main harvest will be gathered as the “brides guests” (Matthew 22:10) to the wedding. This will happen 3.5 years (approximately) after the bride goes into seclusion.”
• “I believe that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation period....The raptured Bride will come with him dressed in white to rule and reign with Him in Jerusalem. At the end of the millennial reign, the New Jerusalem and the earthly Jerusalem will meet and the two will become One in Christ.”

Frankly, I have a serious problem with the idea of the Bride being snatched away for a wedding in heaven – while all hell is breaking loose on earth against the Jewish people. It strikes me as “bad party planning.” I would have a hard time eating wedding cake while others were going through serious tribulation. The very idea strikes me as absolutely heartless, cruel beyond measure, and in my opinion, it paints a terrible picture of the God we serve. This theory is held by many in the Church, largely because they see themselves as being “separate from Israel.”

However, there are other varieties of this “raptured to be married idea,” and they compel me to ask, how can we be taken away as the Bride, and married to Yeshua, before the New Jerusalem comes down? After all, New Jerusalem also is called the “Bride.” The Word says of her:

“For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent, and for Jerusalem’s sake I will not keep quiet, until her righteousness goes forth like brightness, and her salvation like a torch that is burning. The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; and you will be called by a new name which the mouth of YHVH will designate. You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of YHVH, and a royal diadem in the hand of your God. It will no longer be said to you, ‘Forsaken,’ nor to your land will it any longer be said, ‘Desolate’; but you will be called, ‘My delight is in her,’ and your land, ‘Married’; For YHVH delights in you, and to Him your land will be married. For as a young man marries a virgin, so your sons will marry you; and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so your God will rejoice over you. On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have appointed watchmen; all day and all night they will never keep silent. You who remind YHVH, take no rest for yourselves; and give Him no rest until He establishes and makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth” (Isa 62:1-7).

Also, the Apostle John says in Revelation, “I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband” (Rev 21:2).

How can we be a people who are at rest, even partying, before Jerusalem has been established and made a praise in the Earth? How can we possibly have a wedding without the Bride that is New Jerusalem? One of the last things we see in the Book of Revelation is that the New Jerusalem comes down, adorned as a Bride. Does she show up late, all decked out, only to be told that we have already had the ceremony?

Probably not. Could it instead be that we take the idea of our coming “marriage” too far? Yeshua said, “In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven” (Mat 22:30; Mark 12:25; Luke 20:35). Are we getting so caught up in making things fit man’s wedding traditions that we end up straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel? Are we focusing far too much on ourselves as the “Bride,” and not enough on the wishes of our Bridegroom, Messiah Yeshua? He spoke clearly of His love for His chosen City, Jerusalem. She is the City of the Great King, and we who love Him will in turn love and care for her. We are to pray without ceasing for her well-being (Mat 5:35; 23:37; Luke 13:34; Psa 48:2; 122:6).

Yeshua also told of His concern for Jerusalem’s “chicks.” So we ask, what of the Jewish people who are said to be left behind in this supposed “Rapture of the Bride”? How does this scenario fit with the righteous spirit of the sons of Manasseh? When they had come into their inheritance, they said of brethren who did not yet have their inheritance, “We will not return to our homes until every one of the sons of Israel has possessed his inheritance” (Num 32:18). Are we headed for a mansion in the sky, there to party, while our Jewish brothers, and any others who might ultimately be found faithful, are without their inheritance in Messiah, and are even being pummeled by their enemies?

We could be wrong, but we doubt there will be a wedding without the New Jerusalem in attendance. Wedding dates that are set before the day when New Jerusalem comes down do not appear to include all the puzzle pieces, for she is surely a part of the plan. Jerusalem represents our return to the Garden, to being in the presence of our God. As part of the “Body” of Messiah, who is the Bridegroom, we “go into” the New Jerusalem and thus become one with her.

This is not said to deny the importance of being the Bride of Messiah, but to say it does not seem logical to have a marriage taking place before the Bride that is New Jerusalem is present.

We must not understate nor overstate the importance of this prophetic picture. The idea of being a Bride teaches us the priceless principle of faithfulness to Messiah Yeshua, but our wedding should not take precedence over His stated goal, which is the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel – here – on earth, with New Jerusalem being its Holy City. We do not want our comfort to be put ahead of the stated desires of our Beloved. If we really care about Him, we are going to care about what He wants. We will love Him and His purposes even above our own lives.

Post Trib Comments

Those in the “Post-Trib” category said things like: “I don’t see why we (Americans) think we will be spared any wrath.” This comment reminded me that Corrie TenBoom (a Believer who lost her family in the Holocaust) once said, “You can only sell the Rapture in America.” Apparently we have lived such a soft, abundant life that we do not think trouble will ever come near our tent.

Other comments in this category included the following:

• “Daniel wasn’t kept out of the lion’s den, the Hebrew children weren’t kept out of the fiery furnace, and Jonah wasn’t kept out of the belly of the whale. Why would we...be kept from the very thing that Elohim uses to purify His people (tribulation).”
• “Noah went thru the flood. Israel went thru the plagues, thru the parting Sea and then on thru the wilderness. Daniel went thru the experience of the lions den, his friends went thru the furnace. Rehab went thru the destruction of her city. Our Messiah went thru the torture of the stake. Each of His disciples likewise went thru their own horrific tribulations. Who are we...to think we should be spared when even the most righteous were not?... I...believe many will turn from God when Messiah does not rescue them in the midst of what is to come.... There are many examples...where He takes the evil out first, and then continues to work with His saints.... Yahweh...will separate [the wheat and tares]...after they grow up together, looking alike.... that’s ...scary because of the deception of it all....”
• “Scripture says, ‘as in the days of Noah’ and ‘as in the days of Lot’ – there the wicked were taken, dealt with or removed - the righteous went through the flood, were protected as they endured and started afresh. In Lot’s case, the wicked were dealt with and Lot and his immediate family [the small remnant] were protected to start afresh.”
• “Vanishing into thin air to avoid testing...is... not...what...YHWH the Son...died for.”
• “I believe we are here for the duration. I try to prepare on a daily basis.... If I die in the trials, so be it. I will be on my knees, singing His praises for all to witness.”
• “[The Rapture]...doctrine...has...put the evangelical church world...to sleep. Why bother to strive for excellence or righteousness, or even care about the...world when we will all be whisked out of here when the “Big’ trouble occurs? ...[W]e will be here for the duration.... [T]he wheat and tares are left together until the end of the age, when the tares will be removed... (Mat 13). We should all be praying to be the ones left behind, not taken....”
• “I like to think of this as ‘believers being refined.’ I don’t... believe our Father is going to secretly rapture believers. This will be when our faith and belief comes into play....”
• “I am saddened by the complacency the rapture hype brings to the people of God in light of the work we’re here to do.... Haggai [spoke] of God having a house that He desires to build. We are that house....I believe a healthy fear will come on His people as we consider our ways (repenting of the houses we built for ourselves) and by the power of the Spirit...we will see the ‘glory of the latter house exceeding the glory of the former.’.... [F]ire is required for gold to be purified, and we will see the fire because we will be here...when the heat gets turned up. God loves us too much to rapture us up in the filthy condition we’re in today.”
• “The ‘Secret Rapture’ came from a woman who received the revelation in a charismatic Catholic Church in Scotland, and a gentleman brought it to the United States in the 1800's....
• “The ‘Secret Rapture’ is not a teaching of a strong and mighty people.... [but] of fear and cowardice.... Our victory as a people has always been in trusting in our Father, even when the worst of all things happens, we stand our ground and take back territory which was ordained from the beginning to belong to us, Yah’s children.”
• “It doesn’t seem like we should have it ‘easy’ and not have to stand for what we believe.... We feel frightened now because we are not in that place where we can ‘see’ Yeshua and His angels hovering over us; but [then]...we will have the glow on our faces that Steven had and we will see Him beside us. Those of us who are under His blood need not fear in spite of the awful things...that are coming. We will have the Lion of Judah to cling to.”

Other Comments

Some made interesting comments about the various categories and about various beliefs:

• “I like the Pan-Trib Rapture theory best [and] refuse to get caught up in the arguments.”
• “I am still not sure about Daniel’s 70th week...it is a concept to me that people have manipulated and attached too many things to that are questionable. I have read so much on the tribulation over the years from people who think they know that I just don’t know, if you know what I mean. I am almost convinced that the 70th week has already happened ...when Messiah was cut off, crucified, and the temple was destroyed causing the sacrifices to cease. I know this didn’t happen simultaneously but it happened in that order.”
• “I don’t think the 7 year ‘week’ refers to the length of the time of tribulation. I am also not sure that the ‘Rapture’ means we are permanently out of the picture from that point on.”
• “The...rapture theory...teaches man to accept the first supernatural entity that sets foot in Jerusalem as the true Messiah.... This is a very dangerous...as Paul taught...the ‘man of sin’ the ‘son of perdition’ (antichrist...) comes first (2 Thess. 1-12). ...Jesus returns...at the 7th trump. ...Satan... comes at the 6th trump.... the 6th vial, and the 6th seal= 666.” ....Christians need to understand that they’ve been given the honor and privilege to stand against...Satan, who appears looking like the lamb slain but speaks like a dragon (Rev 13:11.... 1 Cor. 11:14).”
• I don’t believe in a rapture at all. This seems to be a rather modern doctrine, evidently invented by the Plymouth Brethren a few centuries ago. Historical Premillennialism has no mention of a rapture rather it speaks of Messiah’s return to earth. The rapture doctrine is a drash (homiletical interpretation) derived from Scripture, not necessarily there in a literal interpretation. ...My current view of Rapture is Yehoshua...returning us to the Land of Israel, not an elevator ride to the clouds and a return to earth after it is all over....”
• “I desire to do as the prophet explained ‘learn the end from the beginning.’ Isaiah 46: 9-10: ‘Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am Elohim, and there is no other; I am Elohim, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’”
• “Many of the so called ‘Rapture’ Scriptures are in fact Gathering Scriptures. As Yeshua will be gathering the whole house of Israel during the Tribulation period.... It is called the Time of Jacob’s Trouble, and...those who belong to Jacob (both houses) will be here. That includes many who are Christians today. ....I see the Gathering and Restoration of all Israel as being the same thing as the Second Exodus (Jer 23:7-8).”
• “God constantly talks about ‘The Land.’ It’s always about the Land.... It seems to me that what is really important to God is getting His people back to ‘The Land,’ all 12 tribes! It’s all about the ingathering of the people of God....I agree completely with you that ‘we should spend our time building Highways that will lead the saints to Zion.’”

Pre-Wrath Comments

Of all these theories, the one we are most sympathetic to is the Pre-Wrath Rapture. However, we fear this idea also may be based on misunderstanding. Concerning this teaching, people said:

• “I surely understand why you would say that our forefathers went through all of the tribulation that God poured out. But, I...believe that true believers will...be raptured out just as the Wrath of God is poured out on this earth.”
• The Word says that we are not appointed to “wrath” but it does say that we will have trials, tribulations and temptations. I...would like to see this worked more thoroughly. I do believe that our Moshiach Yeshua will come back for us and gather us up to Himself before the wrath, but I don’t believe...it will happen before anything bad starts to happen.”
• Not sure what to think about the Rapture issue, however I think the Scriptures teach Pre-Wrath which makes sense to separate the wheat from the tares, to show who really trusts in Yahuah’s promises of deliverance when the world is judged.

When Believers say they are not “appointed unto wrath,” it implies that it includes danger too gruesome for us to endure. With this thought in mind, during one of our many discussions, Angus asked, “Will someone please explain to me the difference to me between tribulation and wrath?“ He asked this because we are told that we will have tribulation in this life – that we are not to love our lives even unto death – and that some of us will be put to death for our faith (Mat 10:21; John 16:33; Acts 12:2; Rom 8:36; Heb 11:37; Rev 2:10; 12:11; 20:4). And Yeshua warned, “They will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name” (Mat 24:9). If, in the name of “tribulation,” we can be hated and even killed, then what is wrath?

Surely, there is a “Great Tribulation” that is to come upon the earth, and the Father’s wrath is poured out at the end of that time. So, is wrath a particular amount of tribulation that we must avoid so as to be saved?

That cannot be the full answer, because we can suffer terrible tribulation and death in the name of our faith. Believers have been beheaded and even sawn in two (Luke 9:9; Heb 11:37; Rev 20:4).

The Greek word in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 translated wrath is orge, it speaks of violent passion, punishment, anger, indignation, and vengeance (Strong’s # G3709).

The idea that Believers are not subject to this punishment comes from several verses:

• Romans 5:9-10: “Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”
• 1 Thessalonians 1:10: “Wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Yeshua, who rescues us from the wrath to come.”
• 1 Thessalonians 5:9: “God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Messiah Yeshua.”

If someone said, you are not destined for “A,” but for “B,” then we can reasonably assume that A must be an opposite of B. And in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 (above), John 3:36, and Hebrews 3:11, wrath is presented as an opposite of salvation/eternal life: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” And, “I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’” If we believe in Messiah, we have the rest found in eternal life, but if not, we have no rest, and will ultimately know wrath. Thus wrath appears to be a particular punishment and not simply a level of tribulation, even though there is great tribulation when it is poured out. Restated, salvation is the opposite of wrath, and the more important meaning of wrath appears to be, “suffering punishment with no hope of eternal salvation.”

We see this point affirmed in that Yeshua said, “The coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be” (Mat 24:37-39).

What happened after those destined to enter the Ark had entered in?

Noah entered the door as God had commanded, “and YHVH closed it behind him” (Gen 7:16).

Yeshua is “Salvation” and the “Door” (Mat 1:21; John 10:7-10). The beginning of wrath is the point in which the Holy One closes the door of salvation, even as He closed the door of the Ark.

We see this truth presented in the parable of the ten virgins. Five of them found they did not have enough oil (Holy Spirit) and went to purchase some. “And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.”

“Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open up for us.’
“But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you’” (Mat 25:10-12).

Yeshua did not know them. They had not entered into a personal relationship with Him, and thus would not know His rest. They would not be invited into His wedding chamber.

James similarly speaks of this door saying, “Behold, the Judge is standing right at the door” (James 5:9). Messiah Yeshua is the Judge (John 5:22; Acts 10:42).

As for wrath, the Father has poured it out at various times, and the faithful were not snatched out prior to those occasions. It simply was not poured out on them (2 Chr 34:21; Isa 63:6; Jer 6:11; 7:20; 42:18; 44:6; Lam 2:4; 4:11; Ezek 9:8; 20:8; Hos 5:10).

In Deuteronomy 9:7 Moses said to the sons of Israel, “Do not forget how you provoked YHVH your God to wrath in the wilderness; from the day that you left the land of Egypt until you arrived at this place, you have been rebellious against YHVH.” Thus, He said of them, “For forty years I loathed that generation, and said they are a people who err in their heart, and they do not know My ways. Therefore I swore in My anger, Truly they shall not enter into My rest” (Psa 95:10-11).

While we have by no means figured it all out, we do believe the higher meaning of “the wrath” is YHVH forever closing the door of salvation. When He does this, His wrath will then be revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18). Those who do not hold to the truth (which is Messiah Yeshua), will be forever shut out (John 14:6). When this proverbial door is closed, no one else will be saved.

What happens at this time to those who know Yeshua?

Some teach they will be raptured, taken from the earth, into Heaven, there to wait until the Father’s wrath is abated. Then, they will be brought back to earth rule and reign with the Messiah.

What difference does it make whether or not we tell Believers they will be taken out and not have to see wrath being poured out around them?

If they are not raptured as they were told they would be, it will surely strike a blow against their faith in Messiah. Furthermore, telling people they are going to be taken out of difficult times causes them to focus on escape rather than on enduring to the end. And Messiah Yeshua told us to seek to “endure to the end” (Mat 24:13; Mark 13:13). It also detracts from our call to do what we can to help restore the Messiah’s Kingdom, here on earth (Mat 6:10).

Even if this is not the case, we nonetheless feel it is better to be prepared and not called upon, than to be called upon and not be prepared. We need to prepare to endure to the end.

We therefore believe the Pre-Wrath doctrine can cause people to suffer terrible consequences. And try as we might, we cannot bring ourselves to embrace the theory. We instead think Believers are called to ride out the storm. We believe our coming glory will be in that we number among the Father’s hidden ones (Zep 2:3; Col 3:3). We will be hidden away, out in the open, even as our forefathers were once “hidden” in Goshen. Darkness may surround us during these times, but we will be in the light, safely abiding in the secret place of the Almighty. The fact that our God preserves us in times of trouble being a strong witness to all who turned away from Him.

It may be that the last-days wrath is what King David had in mind when he wrote the following words of encouragement: “A thousand may fall at your side and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not approach you. You will only look on with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked. For you have made the LORD, my refuge, even the Most High, your dwelling place. No evil will befall you, nor will any plague come near your tent” (Psa 91:7-10).

In the last days, some of us may be called upon to give our lives for our testimony, but if so, we thereafter get to rule and reign with the Lamb (Rev 20:4). Even so, our God is faithful and will not allow us to be tempted beyond what we are able, “but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it” (1 Cor 10:13).

In conclusion, these are our personal opinions, and this is but a brief report that does not cover many points that could be covered. Nonetheless, we present it to the Body of Messiah for scrutiny.

If you have constructive comments or suggestions, please let us hear from you regarding the ideas presented in this paper. We are not offering preset comments to vote on, but ask you to please write and express your view in the matter. We especially ask that any correction be in the form of Scripture.

To respond, please do not hit the “reply” button on this email (which automatically goes to our webmaster). Instead, click on my email link below to begin a letter, or hit the “Forward” button, delete the webmaster’s address, and paste in my email address.

We hope to hear from you.
Shalom b’Yeshua,
Batya (and Angus)

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